Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

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Should we continue with the Club ELO Leagues?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:18 pm

Keep things as they are
Yes, but only the Leagues, no KO Cup
No votes
No. Just run the Club Knockout Cup
Total votes: 16

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Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby bobby_b2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:18 pm

Hi everyone,

If you cast your mind back to the AGM I asked everyone attending the question, 'Do you want to keep the ELO leagues running or just hold the Knockout Cups?'
at the time the answer seemed to be a firm yes for keeping the Leagues and the Knockout Cups.

But since then I've had a lot of people tell me that some games, although particularly 40k as this is the most active game league-wise, are getting a little over competitive and the fun is being drained from the game. So I thought I would ask this question again now before we get too far into the year and see what you all thought.

Please answer the poll and feel free to share any views on the matter below.

The poll will run until Monday 3 March and the announcement about how we will continue will be made on Tuesday 4 March after our committee meeting.

If you want to share your views with me more privately, then PM me, email me or just nab me at the club to chat.


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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Khorneflakes » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:50 pm

For me personally I never actually submitted a result to any of the ELO stuff, I found it hard to remember and bothersome. However the knock out cups were a great idea as it allowed a short compact amount of playing, where you could play to win, then the rest of the time was ok for fun games.
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Jamiehinds » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:18 pm

I preferred just having the Knockout thing, though having a group stage to get into the groove of competitive games would be great.

Perhaps we could use the ELO for pairings in the tourny or something...

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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Jarrkron » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:17 am

I'm happy for the elo to go, would make day to day games a bit more fun. The knockout cup was pretty cool though.

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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Wolfie » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:04 am

I'm pretty much with Will on this. The ELO is a nice idea but the admins a pain. Mind you, for those who want to be competitive, its nice and it is an extra opportunity for people to shine. I enjoyed the grand championship that it afforded too as with just the knockout cup, there will be no opportunity for that.

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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Brother Vogt » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:40 pm

I think the biggest issue with the ELO is that people are just generally too lazy to report their games, especially in anything more than "I won/lost" format.
Therefore a knockout run on a semi regular format is the most logical way and you still get the payoff of the 'big final' game.
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby XavierM » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:11 pm

History lesson for everyone.

The initial wfb leagues were good where we had a round robin league. However they took a lot of time, and people quickly got bored of playing with one list. We added in jokers, divisions, and playoffs to spice it up, but availability and commitment were always the main problem.

The Elo was a new way of keeping the league's going, and made sense to allow players to use different lists and didn't matter what scenario or points you played it could be incorporated. However with no drive behind it in wfb, and I would so forgetfulness not laziness in w40k, it has fallen off it's aim a bit. I think this is a Tuesday night thing where you only think about the game on Tuesday, then you are thinking about next week.

Knockout cups work as long as the commitment is there. It can also free up the other weeks for other games. The 40k one has been the most successful, with Bloodbowl failing to reach it's playoffs stage.

I think the knockout comps will work as long as you can get the commitment. Day events seem popular at the moment so keep those going. Club campaigns do not work with more than a few players. It sounds cool, but they will never get finished or get forgotten about.

Anyway lessons learned over. Keep up the good work committee.

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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Gombol » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:29 pm

As I don't play 40k anymore, I'm not going to vote out of fairness to the people who accually play it.

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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Roper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:40 am

*rummages in folder marked 'half finished websites'*
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Duke_of_Krondor » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:16 am

The thing don't have to have every game as an ELO. With knock outs some people may only get one game to be competitive a year and have to wait for the next year to come around. With ELO, you can keep it going. Sure, sometimes you drift towards the bottom but there's always a chance to clamber up by playing (I speak from experience, having gone from bottom to top 4 in the first fantasy ELO). It's something extra that doesn't have to be used for every game and doesn't prevent you playing league games with variant/fun lists.
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby hwd » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:50 am

The Admin aspect of the ELO is a bit of a pain I agree.

Another aspect of the ELO system (and part of the reason we introduced it before) was it removes some of the focus on the number of games a person has played, because the number of points available to the league as a whole is capped. In this way allows for people to join the "league environment" half way thorough the year, without the being disadvantaged by having missed a bunch of games.
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby AdamP » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:38 am

I never really approached the Elo games with a competitive mindset, it was just an extra that ran in the background and only really became important towards the tail end of the year to decide the Elo champion.

I think we should keep some form of 'competive' play as it means each system gets it time to shine. The knockout leagues seem to work but you may end up in the position that you've only played one game. Moving to a division system before hand will just have the same problem as previous leagues and help delay matters.

An option is an occasional Saturday tournament event. 3 games with just members of the club. This gives everyone a few more games. You could also extend by using the results as a seeding for a potential top 8 knockout over the following weeks.

Also on that note, are we doing the one-night combat and border patrol events this year?
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Re: Do we want to keep the ELO leagues running?

Postby Dragon » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:53 am

I would like to post yes on this, however that vote would come from the fact I am fairly newish to playing at pigmar and it would be something I would like to try. However given that the reason ELO is being brought into question is from the view point it reduces the fun in many matches I would prefer to hear the votes from those that have played regularly week to week both in ELO and outside it, and to see if it does indeed reduce the fun of the matches. But then i guess you could just play matches not counting towards elo, the idea that people could join mid way through seems like a sensible one. And allows those that cant play certain weeks etc a sporting chance

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