AoS thoughts after 2 games

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XavierM
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AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby XavierM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:54 am

Played Tim last night at mine.
I took,
Gut buster Tribe:
Tyrant
Butcher
3 units of 3 ogres with a smattering of command
4 ironguts
3 leadbelchers

Ironblaster
thunder tusk

Tim took an equal amount of dwarf wounds.

Positives
1. I won.
2. I had to make several important decisions during the game, such as board size and which combat to fight first.
3. Small units of multi wound models are not affected by battleshock at all
4. Positioning of units is still key and the closest model pile in rules stop too many gamey tactics.
5. My hordes measurer thing works well for melee ranges

Negatives
1. It looks terrible on the table. Random collections of models aren't as pretty as the ranked up variants
2. Ogres will nearly always have sudden death, and considering I killed Tims general with my thunder tusk turn 1 it could have been a pointless game. I went for endure just so we had a game.
3. Was the game balanced? I don't know. It could have swung Tims way with a charge from his miners but I'm not too sure.
4. Magic is a bit underwhelming now. I loved the mini game that was magic from around 6th onwards.
5. Combat turns take way too long and without markers you can get confused.quite quickly as to who has fought, what turn it is, should we roll for priority?

Need to keep.playing and see. My suggestion is to use the formations at the end of each warscroll compendium as a base against each other as I think they will create the feel of an army. Next game I intend to use the beastclaw. Avalanche and the gut buster wartime together and see what happens. Tim may try the dispossessed clan throng and war machine one too.

Anyway, I still want a ranked battle game though as my armies look prettier like that.
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Adastra
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby Adastra » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:33 am

STUPID GAME!





But in brief,

Turn sequence,
I like the additions of the command ability, though it’s a little annoying that you can’t have a “2nd” step up when your general dies in turn one to a stupid Thundertusk’s shooting. (not bitter)
Magic seems to be less tactical, in that it’s pretty much a straight dice off. From a Duardin(?) POV I think I’s better.
Shooting, while in combat is stupid, especially if you can shoot out of said combat into another combat. (not bitter)
All moving is stupid if you’ve got units of more than 5 models, moving is messy, charging not including base move is odd, but I get it given you move then charge (same as charging with + base move), pile in into combat is messy if you’ve got more than 5 models in a unit.
Combat,
Pile in … logical, like it. Picking combats from that point on is STUPID, but also awesomely tactical. I see me having a job remembering what’s hit already, so I’ll need a whole bunch of tokens for that.
Warmachines in combat, here’s an oddity we faced, my cannon (4 wounds, 4+ save) and it’s crew (3 models, 1 wound each, 5+ save) are in combat, they are a unit, they have 4 saves to make, how do I roll? Do I allocate as I see fit? Do I use the best save? Do I split them? etc? nothing in the rules pamphlet on this.

Dwardyn(?) specific,
Warmachines all seem to have had a nerf, though I learned from the mistakes of game 1 to keep the engineer next to the cannon would have helped.
Solo characters hold their own fairly well.
Units of 20 are a waste, units of 10 would be ok, but probably 12-15 is optimum.
Though Thorek is cool, he needs Kraggi to work really well, and you need a second runelord to be able to cover enough area to get spells unbound.
Taking 2 named lords is pointless, take one, use the rest of the points for an unnamed one, or another small unit.
Hammerers are beasts, longbeards survive but don’t do enough damage to get out of combat quickly, miners are still semi pointless, though arriving and getting a 9” charge off with several small miners units would have worked better than arriving with a unit of 20 and rolling a 3 to charge.

In general from our game shooting seemed weak, magic seemed weak, ironguts need to die turn 1 at the latest!
"Play more games" - Wil Wheaton

Game Record

Age of Sigmar,
Duardin,
Played: 2
Won: 0
Lost: 2
Thought was a stupid game: 2

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XavierM
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby XavierM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:36 am

One other final thing.

I want to dispel the myth that warscrolls make the game faster. They don't. There is just as much looking up of rules as before and in the pdfs it is very annoying to have to keep flicking between the units.

This maybe better with the app, but you are still having to stop and check. I find the same with Warmahordes having to check cards that are in front of me all the time.

We had a mac with 3 pdfs open last night on 3 tabs and it was very frustrating to have to go back to it time and time again, plus in the evening phones are starting to lose charge.

Would prefer a hardcopy, but my printer is currently broken :(
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Roper
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby Roper » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:57 pm

I'd take issue with the statement that battleshock doesn't affect small units of multi wound - having wiped out a unit of 3 trolls after only killing one!

From my games now, pitched battles arent really where the game is best; play the scenarios. It levels so much of the perceived unbalancing and with a very specific set of victory conditions you have to think about the game differently.

The two main things I've learned; big is not better, it's different - in the scenario we played last night, my Celestant on Dracoth came within a single dice-roll of a major victory in turn one, then proceeded to die twice in successive turns. They need a lot more thought in how they're used.
Secondly, and related to that, WFB you could slowly whittle a number of units down and they get a little less effective with each wound. Barring special rules units in AoS are pretty much as effective as the number of models you can get into attack range. The best method for victory is to utterly wipe units. Focus fire, co-ordinate charges, use the pile-in mechanic to pull units out of shape.

Lastly, 'balancing' - every effort I've seen to try and do this has never resulted in a game that people think 'works'.
Genuine recommendation; play some of the scenarios, don't try to balance anything and see if your idea changes.
I was up against 7 or 8 Dwarf characters last night, and once I'd figured out how to keep them out of my way, it was great.

AoS is utterly, utterly different to WFB. Has some shared ideas and imagery, that's it.
It's entirely likely you might not ever like it, and that's fine. I know for a lot of the Pigmar WFB guys the parts they like are the parts that turned me off eventually, and they're absent from AoS.

On the subject of warscrolls, yeah. I'll be making a cheat sheet of my own pretty soon.
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby XavierM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:07 pm

3 ogres lose one model. Roll a dice and get a 6 and a bravery 6 woukd lose one model if they have a banner they reroll the 6. I didn't lose a single ogre to battleshock. Agree that when it goes wrong it would be devastating, but then the unit should have probably been dead anyway.

I've heard exactly what you have said across the board, play the scenarios. But what scenarios? They are designed to work with the starter set, or in a book that I don't have.

Don't get me wrong, I found myself thinking I enjoyed the game yesterday, and I won due to what you said, wiping out units and concentrating on them. We are going to keep trying and see, these are just some early thoughts.
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby Andydavies » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:56 pm

Interesting to read your thoughts. Battleshock wrecked my chaos Knights last game, they're really missing their 1+ save!

I've had a few games now but each time it has been the other players' first go at it.

It would be great to play someone else who has had a few games!

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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby XavierM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:30 pm

How many chaos knights did you have in the unit?
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby Andydavies » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:49 pm

9 to start with. I think I lost three to shooting and two in combat and then three ran off despite wiping out their opposition.

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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby XavierM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:41 pm

That makes sense as if you lose 5 models in a turn then dice + 5 is quite likely to fail. If you took two units of 5 then one would be dead but you would still have another unit left. If the casualties were spread around it would he dice + 2 or 3 which is easier to pass at bravery 7.
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Re: AoS thoughts after 2 games

Postby Roper » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:30 am

The Ogors (ooh, look at me an' my lingo!!) have to get some kind of a Mulligan on battleshock because they are just multi-wound units; the re-rolling 6's only really mitigates losing a single model. I won't math hammer too much but effectively it reduces the probability of losing the maximum number of models, but *increases* the chance of losing a lower number.

The scenarios are in the big book, and I'm sure that there are disreputable parts of the internet where you could pick up the scenarios just to try before you buy.

I like AoS, but I can certainly understand why so many are undecided or unhappy with it. What I really don't understand is the people who feel they are unable to play 8th any more as a result of it (no-one here, I might add!). I mean, people still play Mordheim/Necromunda/BloodBowl etc.
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